Lietuva and Latvija: we rule! International project(s)

It's ok, indeed. We simply need a judge

OK Will tell her. And register her here.

Alrighty, howdy everyone! As you can probably guess, I'm Elk, the person who was asked to judge for you guys. Thanks to the help of YaWorm and Nuluk, I finally managed to get here and find my way to be able to post (or rather, be directed, but oh well, I'm posting now, arn't I?:D)

I was instructed to drop the topic into this thread, and so I shall. Your topic is:

Morgoth was a poor strategist.

If you've any questions, feel free to ask me! In the meantime I'll take another read through your rules. Were there any specific things that you wanted comments on?

And I'm about 7 hours behind you, I think, just FYI.

I was asked to post one more thing, as Elk himself totally forgot that

The topic is Morgoth was a poor strategist.

Latvians Pro, Lithuanians Opp.


Good luck!

The time issue is quite important. Now we can count one week properly, but when we have the 48-hour limit, do we follow the clocks of this forum? I think the default is GMT +2, which is our timezone, but I may be wrong.

I don't think we need to count one week properly - we just know that the debate starts on Saturday, and whenever the thread is opened, the debate starts and the first deadline for the proposition is set by simply adding 48 hours.

Lithuania and Latvia are on the same timezone (as far as I know) so the deadlines will be exactly the same for both teams.

I agree with Elfhilde. I think we could just add 48 hours after last post. This way the judge is free to open the thread when it is convenient for him.

Oh my goddess, of course I know we have to add 48 hours and that one week does not necessarily have to be exactly 7x24 hours! What I mean is that we should adjust our MB clocks so that we see the same time in our posts and no confusions arise.

Oh ok I think GMT+2 is the default setting in our MB, I don't know anything about Kurbijkurne though... yes, it would be more convenient if everyone had their time set on GMT+2, but it's up to them as long as they know that the deadlines which are announced are in GMT+2... I mean, after a post is made, the judge announces the deadline for the next post. We all (except the judge) live in the same timezone so I don't think there will be any confusion as long as the deadlines are given in GMT+2 time.

So I don't really see any problem.

Great to see you here, Elk! And fantastic topic as well!


Btw, what about minus points then?

I wanted this to be clarified before posting the topic, but Elfhild reassured me that it is up to the judge and the the judge (judgeS, 'cos we're having two of them, right?) will post his system when he opens the debate thread in your MB. I think there should be a minus point category, but judges know better for what the points should be taken away

EDIT for our latvian friends: when you get a Lithuanian email with the subject "Tolkien Lietuva naujienos", don't get scared - it's our monthly newsletter. I sent it earlier this month because next week we've got a voting and I wanted to inform our members beforehand.

Too late.. i got scared already..

My clock is set to GMT +2, so I think that we're all one the same page, I'll be using whatever time shows in the post itself, not my home clock or anything like that, so I think it'll work out fine.

Just for reference, my computer shows Nulukkizdin's post just-previous to be at: February 20, 2005, 9:24 am

Is that the same as it is over there?

About negative points - I'm assuming that means where I'd take points away? I'll post my preferences to show what I like to see and what I'd rather not see. I can do that later today even (my time, it's Sunday-noon for me). The way I see judging, a person starts with zero (like no post), and then gains points based on how good of a job they did convincing me and making their point.

Yes, Elk, I see the same as you.

Umm.. one question.. what about second judge? Are we going to have one?

Alrighty, my turn for questions about the rules:

By "every post (except the closing statements) is rated in the following categories, 5 point scale (5 - outstanding, 4 -very good, 3-ok, 2-somewhat lacking 1-poor 0-nonexistant)
", does that mean 5 points in -each- of those 5 categories? Or is that 1 point for each category?

And also, the closing statements are not included in the scoring? And how many points can be earned with the Overall Strategy and the Overall Choice of Arguments?

Nuluk, I've asked Arwe Thereyet from the Plaza to help us out as an alternate judge (if Elk cannot judge for some reason). I will ask her to post something when she gets time (I know that she is busy ATM). Oh, and you may know her as current Saruman of Isengard.

One more thingy about the rules.... I know the rebuttals have been discussed already, but I have two things to ask. In the rules there is a point "The Opposing team cannot rebutt the arguments put forward in the Proposing team’s first post". My question is: can the proposition first post be rebutted in the second Prop post (just want to make sure)?

The second question. If we don't have out-of-post rebuttals then the only post where rebuttals could be included is the 2nd post of both teams (in 3v3 debate). If we have at least one out-of-post rebuttal, the last posts could also be rebutted. What do you think on that? (if not for this debate, then maybe for the next).

I thought we have no rebutals in the first posts but rebuttals are allowed in the IInd and IIIrd posts, but not allowed in the colsing statement.

can the proposition first post be rebutted in the second Prop post

What do you mean: prop rebutts prop? Have I missed something? :shock:

does that mean 5 points in -each- of those 5 categories

In each of the categories. 5 categories make 5 max points for every post.

the closing statements are not included in the scoring? And how many points can be earned with the Overall Strategy and the Overall Choice of Arguments?

for the closing statements I coined a separate category, can't remember it now, but it's the last one. Actually, I'm absolutely inexperienced so I wanted someone to wuthority look through the judging points. Maybe this will work: for the closing statement there is the same 5-point scale, meaning that one can get up to 5 additional points for their closing statement (outstanding, very good, ok...)

As for Overall Strategy/Choice of Arguments points I have no clue and I'd like someone else to answer.

*ducks down - lack of confidence*

does that mean 5 points in -each- of those 5 categories

In each of the categories. 5 categories make 5 max points for every post.

Actually, I thought that there would be 5 points for each category, and as there are 5 categories, a post could get max 25 points (5x5). If the maximum for a post is 5, that's like... well... (can't seem to find the word) labai nepaslanki sistema (labai mažai skirtųsi vienos žinutės rezultatas nuo kitos... 1 balo vertė labai didelė)


Also, just in case there is any confusion, "closing statement" that we're here talking about is not the final part of a main post, but a seperate post with a conclusion of all the team's arguments... I think we better have another name for that, e.g. "closing post" or "conclusion", because "closing statement is not included in the scoring" sounds kind of confusing to me... ah, whatever 😉

can the proposition first post be rebutted in the second Prop post

What do you mean: prop rebutts prop? Have I missed something?

I suppose Worm wanted to say "can the proposition first post be rebutted in the second Opp post". That is, opposition can't rebut in their first post, but the question is, can they rebut the first post made by the prop in their second post? I think they can...?

Elfhild rašė:Actually, I thought that there would be 5 points for each category, and as there are 5 categories, a post could get max 25 points (5x5). <...>
I suppose Worm wanted to say "can the proposition first post be rebutted in the second Opp post". That is, opposition can't rebut in their first post, but the question is, can they rebut the first post made by the prop in their second post? I think they can...?

On points: that's exactly what I meant. Did I express myself inaccurately?

Yes, rebuttals are allowed in the 2nd and the 3rd posts.